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After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
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Omega Letter - Commentary Discussion

Militancy Misplaced
Posted By: Anton
7/9/2018 12:42:38 PM

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6 Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying

Member Comments:

Excellent as always Pete and Amen!Thanks for all the work you put in and the Godly wisdom you share.We will only be sinless when we receive our full redemption at the rapture-the Blessed Hope of the Church.God Bless,
Anton.


Reply # 1 - ReplyTo ID: 15246


Posted By: Gracemer -
Date: 7/9/2018 5:45:32 PM
2 Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying

Comments: "...I am not sure why this has ever been such a huge, contentious, church-splitting issue for believers over the centuries."

I can help you with that one. It's the question of salvation by the grace of God vs. salvation by works (one's own faith and other deeds). Pretty important. We're all "robots" by our sin nature and corrupt wills. A corrupt will cannot produce faith unto salvation. It must be given to us. Afterwards, we can exercise our new, uncorrupted wills (although constantly under attack by our old sin nature) in obedience to God, and then we can produce fruit and good works. By getting it backwards (thinking our own faith justifies us) people live in fear of losing their salvation, become judgmental of others, and produce a pile of dead works. I don't say that people who think it was their own choice that saved them aren't saved. After all, it's what is being taught to them. I like soteriology like you like eschatology.
Reply # 2 - ReplyTo ID: 15247


Posted By: pete -
Date: 7/9/2018 7:45:09 PM
2 Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying

Comments:

Gracemer,

I believe the point I was making, not that it is not an important topic, but it is a topic that can be argued vehemently from both sides with equal vigor, thus, becomes pointless.

God is omniscient and knows the end from the beginning, and also true, is the choice we each have to make.

Where people want to argue, is the nuance between a person being able to make that choice of their own accord, or because of God.

I would argue again, that it is both. The druggie laying in the gutter crying out to God because he/she has no one else left to cry too, isn't there by God's grace (high in the gutter). Their desperation signals their brokeness and inability to look anywhere else but up.

But God also gives people the ability to have faith, because He draws all men unto Himself. 

In my estimation, it is one issue none of us will resolve this side of the veil. Like trying to argue how old the earth is, or what we will do in eternity.


Reply # 3 - ReplyTo ID: 15248


Posted By: Gracemer -
Date: 7/9/2018 9:47:09 PM
Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying

Comments: What I get is that this topic is not your thing, which is okay. But I've posted about it numerous times, including scriptures and a great treatise on the subject by Arthur C. Custance; great because of its clarity and readability. Sovereignty in election is the basis of our eternal security. Even the verses you quoted from Romans support this.

Matt Slick of CARM wrote a paper on predestination. In fact, his was the first thing I ever read when I started looking into the subject. We are all in agreement, however, that this isn't an essential doctrine to salvation. Over and out.
Reply # 4 - ReplyTo ID: 15249


Posted By: pete -
Date: 7/9/2018 11:31:51 PM
1 Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying

Comments:

Gracemer,

the bottom line is that one can be saved whether they believe in predestination or not. That makes it non essential in terms of salvation, we can disagree on whether it is essential to maturity in the faith.


Reply # 5 - ReplyTo ID: 15250


Posted By: Gracemer -
Date: 7/9/2018 11:49:53 PM
Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying

Comments: Agreed. I think it makes a difference in the quality of one's walk. You said maturity and that's probably also correct.