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2 Chronicles  7 : 14
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
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Omega Letter - Commentary Discussion

Were the Reformers Right about Justification?
Posted By: Gracemer
7/21/2017 11:06:43 AM


Original Commentary Link
2 Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying

Member Comments:
This is the old Arminianism v. Calvinism debate and it's been around for centuries. The Roman Catholic Church is Arminian to its core, but Arminianism has polluted most of our churches from the get-go. It sounds like Wright just unpacked it a little more for the current generation and its slip is showing by a few more inches. It is a frightening, heretical, salvation by works doctrine held by most American Christians even though they deny believing in salvation by works. (cont'd in next post)

Reply # 1 - ReplyTo ID: 14454

Posted By: Gracemer -
Date: 7/21/2017 11:09:47 AM
Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying

Comments: For those unfamiliar with the terms, here's a pretty accurate summation of the two positions (courtesy of "The Five Points of CALVINISM.")

"According to Arminianism: Salvation is accomplished through the combined efforts of God (who takes the initiative) and man (who must respond) - man's response being the determining factor. God has provided salvation for everyone, but His provision becomes effective only for those who, of their own free will, "choose" to cooperate with Him and accept His offer of grace. At the crucial point, man's will plays a decisive role; thus man, not God, determines who will be recipients of the gift of salvation." (cont'd in next post)

Reply # 2 - ReplyTo ID: 14455

Posted By: Gracemer -
Date: 7/21/2017 11:10:47 AM
1 Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying

"According to Calvinism: Salvation is accomplished by the almighty power of the Triune God. The Father chose a people, the Son died for them, the Holy Spirit makes Christ's death effective by bringing the elect to faith and repentance, thereby causing them to willingly obey the gospel. The entire process (election, redemption, regeneration) is the work of God and is by grace alone. Thus God, not man, determines who will be the recipients of the gift of salvation."

To answer the question in the title of your article, Alf, yes, the Reformers were right.
Reply # 3 - ReplyTo ID: 14456

Posted By: NathanE -
Date: 7/21/2017 2:04:51 PM
8 Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying


In order to hold true to a 5-point Calvinist viewpoint, you have to somehow explain away 1 Tim 2:3-4 and 2 Pet 3:9 where God expresses his desire for all men to be saved.

I like Jack Kelley's view on this:

Both Calvinists and Arminians are correct in what they affirm.  Calvinists affirm eternal security and Arminians affirm agency (freedom of choice).  But both are incorrect in what they deny.  Calvinists deny agency and Arminians deny security.  I affirm both agency and security.  I believe we can (must) choose to be saved (Matt 7:7-8) and that once we do it can never be revoked for any reason (Ephes 1:13-14).  -Jack Kelley 9/21/11

Reply # 4 - ReplyTo ID: 14457

Posted By: DonaldPalmer -
Date: 7/21/2017 2:40:34 PM
7 Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying


Nathan E, 

I agree with you fully. I think Jack Kelly is correct. Once we are sons of God, (truly born again) we cannot lose our salvation. It is not dependent on our works. The only thing works can bring is reward, not salvation. There is nothing we can do to bring about salvation. The only work is the one that Jesus did on the cross for us. Thank God it is not in my hands! 

Reply # 5 - ReplyTo ID: 14458

Posted By: NathanE -
Date: 7/21/2017 3:29:47 PM
2 Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying


Amen bro, I find myself thanking Him more and more the closer we get to that Day...

Reply # 6 - ReplyTo ID: 14459

Posted By: Gracemer -
Date: 7/22/2017 1:44:26 AM
Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying

Comments: As to Jack Kelley's statement "I believe we can (must) choose to be saved (Matt 7:7-8) and that once we do it can never be revoked for any reason." is sort of true, but it doesn't mention how we are saved and if it's a free will choice. It's kind of an incomplete statement of the facts.

I liken regeneration to a man who has spent his life in a dark room. He doesn't know what light is and therefore doesn't desire it because it has no meaning for him. But if someone flips the light switch and floods the room with light, he will see. He doesn't make a choice to see, he just does. No free will about it. The cause of his sight is the person who flips the switch and doesn't involve any will on his part to have sight.
Reply # 7 - ReplyTo ID: 14460

Posted By: Gracemer -
Date: 7/22/2017 1:46:46 AM
1 Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying

Comments: Remember Paul on the Damascus road? He was blind until Jesus appeared to him in a blinding light. He didn't make a free will choice to see Jesus, didn't ponder on whether or not he would believe. Jesus made the invisible visible to him. And so it is with everyone who believes. "I once was blind but now I see." God must first regenerate a man and only then can he "choose" Christ. The choosing is really only an afterthought to regeneration which is the gift of God to the elect.
Reply # 8 - ReplyTo ID: 14461

Posted By: PamelaSwisher -
Date: 7/22/2017 8:03:14 PM
Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying


My confirmation of my justification is best described (for me) in these two classic songs



Sorry I don't know how to highlight

Reply # 9 - ReplyTo ID: 14462

Posted By: RaeAnne -
Date: 7/23/2017 8:30:32 PM
4 Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying

Comments: This article isn't for "baby Christians" who are still on milk. Need some teeth to chew and understand this one.
Reply # 10 - ReplyTo ID: 14463

Posted By: Greg S/CG -
Date: 7/24/2017 2:30:50 PM
2 Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying


Satan is diluting Christianity. piece by piece he is breeding confusion. Its to be expected at this time so we must remain firm in our beliefs. 


Reply # 11 - ReplyTo ID: 14468

Posted By: Sassenach -
Date: 7/27/2017 7:36:48 PM
1 Shout AMEN!Amen ~ PrayingPraying


Well, personally, I just believe what Paul states in Romans and elsewhere.  Scripture is plain and simple...but only if you have the Holy Spirit indwelling within you.  Otherwise, your perseption of what it says is vastly distorted...imho